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elwoos
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
2052 Posts |
 Posted - 2004-09-27 : 18:01:45
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| I'm really uncertain that this is the right place for this but can't really see anywhere else that may be more appropriate so I'm going to ask a very serious question.I've seen it suggested elsewhere that people who answer questions on bulletin boards such as these are ultimately doing themselves out of a job due to outsourcing etc. to what is currently considered the 'third world'. I would be very interested in hearing how people feel about this suggestion given the time and devotion that is paid to this bulletin board to make it the success that it clearly is.Personally I feel that knowledge should be as widely distributed as possible, perhaps it's naivete, perhaps it's altruism. I know for a fact that I have benefited greatly from SQLTeam and would like to continue to do so but I also hope that in the future that others can benefit from what I have learnt.If this is too serious a point to put in a social forum then please move it elsewhere, otherwise I would be interested in how people feel about this issuethankssteve (who btw doesn't need any more beer tonight thanks - hence the philosophical type discussion - takes me back to my student days)Steve no function beer well without |
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Merkin
Funky Drop Bear Fearing SQL Dude!
4970 Posts |
Posted - 2004-09-27 : 18:43:56
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I have learnt more from ANSWERING questions here than any other single source. In my early days here, if someone asked a question I didn't know the answer to, I would go and find out. If that meant creating some tables to duplicate the situation, even better. I learnt a whole bunch of real world problems I otherwise wouldn't know about and how to solve them by doing peoples research for them.My association with this site has also led to me getting a bunch of work, and a great network of people I can call on if I need help.If I helped out a bunch of people along the way, great. I like helping people.You can stop outsourcing, it's been happening for years, just now some of it is offshore. I also don't believe that us IT folks should be protected against outsourcing when countless assembly workers, garment workers and farmers weren't, and everytime you buy a Starbucks coffee or a pair of Nikes you are supporting this sort of global market.The way I see it, you can sit around whining about it, or you can figure out what will be needed in the future and make yourself damn useful  I'm cleaning up a stack of code now written by some shop in India, and my contract just got extended.Damian |
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ehorn
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
1632 Posts |
Posted - 2004-09-27 : 19:46:26
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quote:
The way I see it, you can sit around whining about it, or you can figure out what will be needed in the future and make yourself damn useful
Amen!! |
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AjarnMark
SQL Slashing Gunting Master
3246 Posts |
Posted - 2004-09-28 : 02:46:47
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| I tend to agree with Damian on this. I'd guess that the answers to about 95% of the questions here can be found in Books Online or other sources. A forum like this may make someone's job easier because they can just ask someone instead of doing the research themselves, but I believe that most of them won't really learn the answer themselves and thus won't be very efficient or effective. Maybe that's not a big deal in larger companies which tend to be the ones who outsource more. Perhaps they have different levels of SQL people, and some of them are just expected to be less knowledgeable. I tend to work with small to medium organizations where the SQL guy has to be very versatile.Also, outsourcing to overseas has a whole new set of hassles that come up. Despite what many people proclaim about this digital world, it is NOT just as easy to work with someone half a world away as it is to work with someone you can go see face to face. And that's leaving out cultural differences which affect communication styles, etc., etc.I think global outsourcing is a fine thing for those companies who can afford the costs (not just financial, but also in time) to effectively manage their teams. If they can do it, great! Go for it. Let's raise the tide. But a lot of companies can't or won't. Remember, it's still the small companies that account for the vast majority of jobs out there, and they're not about to try to setup shop in another country. There's plenty of opportunity in our own back yards, wherever your yard happens to be.And I have to admit that there's a part of me that says if you (or I) cannot provide a better value, which involves a LOT more than just price, then we deserve to be put out of business by those who can. We should go find some other area where we can provide a good value, and for some people that will mean getting out of technology. Unlike many people, I believe the shakeout in technology over the last couple of years was a good thing.On a related note, I'm working on a new article for my blog entitled the Top 10 Business Myths, and one of those is that you have to be the lowest price in order to compete. That's just not true! If it were, explain to me the success of Mercedes-Benz and Nordstrom. You don't have to be the lowest price, but you do have to provide a good value.-----------------------------------------------------Words of Wisdom from AjarnMark, owner of Infoneering |
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X002548
Not Just a Number
15586 Posts |
Posted - 2004-09-28 : 10:17:19
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My opinion....it's bound to collapse on itself....never mind global instability these days...For example, the volume of conceptual misunderstanding is outstanding a lot of times....I ain't being platform specific either...quote:
I'm cleaning up a stack of code now written by some shop in India, and my contract just got extended.
http://www.sqlteam.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=40586OK, So you can get 3 developers for the price of 1 (really it's 2)...Hell I can get 3 6 graders to build you a car if you'd like...And PLEASE, let's not put a pair of Nike's in the same category as enterprise critical application, or Information Security....And as for starbucks...$4.00 for a cup of Coffee? Does it come with a shot of Jameson?Brett8-) |
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JimL
SQL Slinging Yak Ranger
1537 Posts |
Posted - 2004-09-28 : 11:42:44
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| Sooner or later it will fall apart. If someone is spending pennys and getting crap or if your users cant understand the IT support. sooner or later someone will profile the losses and put a dollar value to it. When the Guys-Gals at the top find out what the loss of profit is they will be Seriously Pissed.JimUsers <> Logic |
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clarkbaker1964
Constraint Violating Yak Guru
428 Posts |
Posted - 2004-09-28 : 13:25:14
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Its not that I don't agree with you and what you are saying... Hey their are a lot of things I don't agree with... Such as jobs moving over seas, but If you don't like HOMEWORK questions then DON'T ANSWER THEM! You can alway spank those newbees when the give a sub par answer and shine as the pro... do it with class, and REMEMBER most projects fail because of poor communication.
Hey I'm guilty!!! But outsourced projects are bound to fail!!! COMMUNICATION is key! How can you build a large/complex system when you don't interface with the client! GET REAL. Its only a matter of time before those *!$#@! VP's and Project managers who recommend these solution get FIRED for failed over budget projects that do not deliver what the client wants.We just have to be professional and take the bumps in the road!!! Push your market price look for opportunities constantly and hang tough!Surf On Dude! |
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clarkbaker1964
Constraint Violating Yak Guru
428 Posts |
Posted - 2004-09-28 : 13:29:51
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| Over the gripe... I would rather work on a system where I learned a new cool approach rather than fix some (*&^ system to keep it hobbling cause the client cant/wont pony up to over haulingSurf On Dude! |
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spirit1
Cybernetic Yak Master
11752 Posts |
Posted - 2004-09-28 : 13:48:34
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interesting views... because where i live the stuff gets outsourced to. not as much as to the far east.but i agree that it's not a good thing.we do work for a german company, but the lead people here speak german like it's their native language. the rest of us get lessons in german. i like it.Go with the flow & have fun! Else fight the flow  |
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JimL
SQL Slinging Yak Ranger
1537 Posts |
Posted - 2004-09-28 : 13:57:49
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| Nothing wrong with learning other Languages. I have a smattering of a few Including German. But in no way would I consider myself qualified to give Tech-Support in anything but English. Nothing will torq me off faster than not being able to comunicate with someone who is supposed to be helping me.JimUsers <> Logic |
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spirit1
Cybernetic Yak Master
11752 Posts |
Posted - 2004-09-28 : 14:00:44
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| well... i too can give tech-support in english :))) but for the products we do, of course.Go with the flow & have fun! Else fight the flow |
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JimL
SQL Slinging Yak Ranger
1537 Posts |
Posted - 2004-09-28 : 14:15:36
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| Mladen did you learn english as a child? (It is Very good by the way)I wish I had been given a chance to learn a second Language as a child. My friends daugher is now 13 an speaks 5 Languages fluently, another of my friends from Switzerland says her French is so good he could not believe she was not born there.Dovolite, da se predstavim JIMJimUsers <> Logic |
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spirit1
Cybernetic Yak Master
11752 Posts |
Posted - 2004-09-28 : 14:38:33
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well we learn english in primary and high school.i went to state competitons in primary school.so i speak it very well especially when i'm over the border. usually i just change the language i think in.we learn german just in high school.i also speak serbian and croatian which are similar (all former yugoslavia), but now have their dictionaries...  also i can understan most east european languages... it's all slavic Dovolite, da se predstavim JIMnice slovene , where did you translate that?Go with the flow & have fun! Else fight the flow |
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JimL
SQL Slinging Yak Ranger
1537 Posts |
Posted - 2004-09-28 : 15:03:22
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| Just a little phrase book I have. I am shure I screwed up the grammer. JimUsers <> Logic |
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spirit1
Cybernetic Yak Master
11752 Posts |
Posted - 2004-09-28 : 15:11:31
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| acctually you didn't screw it up.technically it's correct but people use:Dovolite, da se predstavim, jaz sem JIMAllow me to introduce myself, i'm JIMand why do you have slovene in your handbook?did any undercover work overhere? Go with the flow & have fun! Else fight the flow |
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JimL
SQL Slinging Yak Ranger
1537 Posts |
Posted - 2004-09-28 : 15:18:30
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| I dealt with a few Slavic people from time to time. I find the Slavic culture quite interesting. JimUsers <> Logic |
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spirit1
Cybernetic Yak Master
11752 Posts |
Posted - 2004-09-28 : 15:27:18
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| interesting in what way?Go with the flow & have fun! Else fight the flow |
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JimL
SQL Slinging Yak Ranger
1537 Posts |
Posted - 2004-09-28 : 16:03:07
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| Just a way of thinking, an Old Slavic friend of mine once stated it as “If we starve at least we all starve together and no I am not a communist”. I also like the older Slavic architecture. Also they were the first cowboys so I have to like that. (I have never been to Slovenia but I am told the Mountains are Quite beautiful and the people warm and friendly.) Kako se reèe po slovensko = How do you say that in sloveneJimUsers <> Logic |
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spirit1
Cybernetic Yak Master
11752 Posts |
Posted - 2004-09-29 : 03:46:53
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| yeah well your old friend is quite right. the slavic are an old people, who learned patience over many centuries of turkish, german and other invasions. in general we regard the new continent as impatient in general. you're still young what's interesting to me is that most "communist" countries wer never really communist. they were socialist. but hey...True. we have a whole book devoted to slavic "cowboys". it's called Under the free sun - Pod svobodnim soncem. it's quite a reading acctually. happens around 1500 years ago...have you ever heard of Vladimir Bartol's Alamut? It's quite an interesting insight into islamic extremism, written in 1928.i've read it in high school. it gives you quite a different view on things.well what can i tell you about slovenia. we have ski slopes, warm beaches, karst, and panonian plane on 20,000 sqare km.yeah people are friendly so if you ever come here, let me know. i'll show you around architecture is quite amazing everyone i talko to is impressed.Go with the flow & have fun! Else fight the flow |
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AndrewMurphy
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
2916 Posts |
Posted - 2004-09-29 : 06:36:38
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| "ski slopes"....MLaden can you supply any links to relevent tourist info (particluarly any translated into english) on same in Slovenia....and any advice on same - dates/locations??Am looking to reacquaint myself with the snow this year after a 2 year break....I got the bug before but then got distracted with family. |
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spirit1
Cybernetic Yak Master
11752 Posts |
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