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Michael Valentine Jones
Yak DBA Kernel (pronounced Colonel)
7020 Posts |
 Posted - 2005-06-06 : 23:42:16
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| Is it just my perception, or are there a lot of people that have been put in a position of responsibility with databases, but have no idea what they are doing? Or is it just that a lot of them post on this site when they get in a jam?You’ve seen the posts:“I just dropped my database and I don’t have a backup. What do I do?”“My transaction log is 200 GB and just keeps getting bigger. What’s wrong?”“I shut own SQL Server and deleted master.dat and msdbdata.mdf to save space. Now SQL Server doesn’t start. Help!”“I'm designing an enterprise data warehouse. Can someone please explain what a table is?”I wonder if by helping these people, we aren’t making things worse? Maybe everyone would be better off if they were fired from their jobs and found employment in some other field. Culling the herd, so to speak.Maybe Microsoft has oversold the idea of a database that is easy to administer, so that the IT management perception is SQL Server can be managed by the most clueless person you have available.CODO ERGO SUM |
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Merkin
Funky Drop Bear Fearing SQL Dude!
4970 Posts |
Posted - 2005-06-06 : 23:56:10
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Indeed, I blame Enterprise Manager  I answered someone's questions yesterday, they asked what a CASE statement was, and how to drop a column.I checked afterwards and they had listed their occupation as DBA.  DamianIta erat quando hic adveni. |
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hog
Constraint Violating Yak Guru
284 Posts |
Posted - 2005-06-07 : 03:36:25
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| Well my two cents worth is....I sort of agree!I may ask some dumb questions, but in my defence I am not a DBA or have anything to do with the real gritty SQL-Server stuff. All I do is write enquiry applications, NO UPDATES I certainly would not feel comfortable being let loose on all aspect of administration... |
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elwoos
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
2052 Posts |
Posted - 2005-06-07 : 04:08:29
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| I'm in that position. When my current job was advertised it sounded like a fairly basic IT support job. What they wanted was someone to rollout a new system across the department. That turned out to be a SQL Server based one and what they really wanted was someone they wanted to throw any IT related problem at. i.e. it was sort of dropped on me really by people who didn't understand what they wanted and I was happy as it was a new feather in my cap. I don't think I'm unique here I think there are loads of people in this sort of position. Fortunately for me I'd done some basic network admin and a lot of front line support so I didn't achieve any of the things you listed (though the last one isn't too far from the mark) and I'm lucky in that I can get training and books and have found these forums. Having said that there are plenty of people in my organisation (a very large one) that don't have any of the background I have (either educational or practical - in the computer sense) but instead are "enthusiastic amateurs" who know a tiny bit more than most about Office and then suddenly become the "IT expert". These sort of people I tend to feel sorry for (although one of them is 'running' our IT department see [url]http://www.sqlteam.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=36375[/url]). I don't think that you can stop this sort of culture as it is often seen as a way of getting an IT bod on the cheap i.e. someone who can do 'real' work as well as all this IT stuff (bit only when they need to). I certainly worked somewhere for a (short) while where I was allowed to do IT work for part of the day as long as I did 'real' work for the rest of the time, yet strangely enough on the frequent occasions that they needed IT input it was acceptable to drop the 'real' work.Having said all this of course I think it takes a special kind of person to do the sort of things that you list, these are the sorts of people who used to (and probably still do) delete the windows swap file to save space. I wonder if we were all there at some point and have just forgotten. I know that the first time I was sat in front of a desktop PC I discovered that there were a list of commands I could type (having been more used to minicomputers and mainframes) and so tried them until one of them said "Fatal disc error". I can tell you I learnt a lot that day - never did it again that's for suresteveA sarcasm detector, what a great idea. |
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Amethystium
Aged Yak Warrior
701 Posts |
Posted - 2005-06-07 : 04:29:14
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quote:
Culling the herd, so to speak.
That sent shivers down my spine.  In all fairness, some people have a habit of trying to run before they walk. We've all done it in the past and dealt with the consequences... and remember, as much as your average developer screws up, it's nothing compared to the diabolical decisions made further up the management chain.p.s.So Merkin, are you going to tell me why you locked my other topic or not?------------->>> BREAKING NEWS!!! <<<------------- Saddam Hussien has weapons of mass destruction |
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mr_mist
Grunnio
1870 Posts |
Posted - 2005-06-07 : 04:42:08
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| Hmm. A tricky one this. Yes, reading a few of the questions does make me despair, but then on the other hand everyone must start somewhere, and we don't always know how much responsibility the people have, or why they have it.There's also the question of general knowledge. Some people have a good understanding of how things work, and how to do a job, you do not have to tell them the exact steps, you just need to say what general method would work. Other people need the exact steps, because they can only carry out parrot fashion the job in hand. The second group of people there will never really benefit from a site like this, as they will only pick up one solution to a specific problem, and not have the knowledge or ability to apply what they know to anything else. But that second group of people is still in employment. Generally they get by by relying entirely on other people to do their job for them. That's just life though. -------Moo. :) |
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Merkin
Funky Drop Bear Fearing SQL Dude!
4970 Posts |
Posted - 2005-06-07 : 05:07:38
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quote:
So Merkin, are you going to tell me why you locked my other topic or not?
You are making an assumption, it wasn't me. I was asleep.But, I'd hazard a guess your topic was locked because it served no purpose other than to cause trouble. But deep down you know this.DamianIta erat quando hic adveni. |
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AndrewMurphy
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
2916 Posts |
Posted - 2005-06-07 : 05:10:43
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| "But that second group of people is still in employment. Generally they get by by relying entirely on other people to do their job for them."hmmmmm....generally going with the title of manager!!! |
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Amethystium
Aged Yak Warrior
701 Posts |
Posted - 2005-06-07 : 05:18:37
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quote:
You are making an assumption, it wasn't me. I was asleep.But, I'd hazard a guess your topic was locked because it served no purpose other than to cause trouble. But deep down you know this.DamianIta erat quando hic adveni.
I did make an assumption but I think it was a fair assumption. What the topic served is clearly explained in the introduction and as Seventhnight put it, good for laughs. Whoever locked it either has a personal issue with me (still) or fits the description I had provided of them. What were you saying about me not having enemies here?! Your last sentence made me smile. Looks like we're both making assumptions  Anyway, might be worth going back to my ignore mode for a while, let this whole thing cool down a bit.------------->>> BREAKING NEWS!!! <<<------------- Saddam Hussien has weapons of mass destruction |
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Michael Valentine Jones
Yak DBA Kernel (pronounced Colonel)
7020 Posts |
Posted - 2005-06-07 : 07:16:55
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Do you really think you can rate people without offending them? Have you ever told you wife or girlfriend she's a 6 out of 10?quote:
Originally posted by Amethystium
quote:
You are making an assumption, it wasn't me. I was asleep.But, I'd hazard a guess your topic was locked because it served no purpose other than to cause trouble. But deep down you know this.DamianIta erat quando hic adveni.
I did make an assumption but I think it was a fair assumption. What the topic served is clearly explained in the introduction and as Seventhnight put it, good for laughs. Whoever locked it either has a personal issue with me (still) or fits the description I had provided of them. What were you saying about me not having enemies here?! Your last sentence made me smile. Looks like we're both making assumptions Anyway, might be worth going back to my ignore mode for a while, let this whole thing cool down a bit.------------->>> BREAKING NEWS!!! <<<------------- Saddam Hussien has weapons of mass destruction
CODO ERGO SUM |
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AndyB13
Aged Yak Warrior
583 Posts |
Posted - 2005-06-07 : 07:39:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Michael Valentine Jones
Have you ever told you wife or girlfriend she's a 6 out of 10?
Yes, once"Ouch, what was that for!!!"  Beauty is in the eyes of the beerholder  |
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twhelan1
Yak Posting Veteran
71 Posts |
Posted - 2005-06-07 : 09:18:47
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quote:
Originally posted by elwoosHaving said that there are plenty of people in my organisation (a very large one) that don't have any of the background I have (either educational or practical - in the computer sense) but instead are "enthusiastic amateurs" who know a tiny bit more than most about Office and then suddenly become the "IT expert". These sort of people I tend to feel sorry for (although one of them is 'running' our IT department see [url]http://www.sqlteam.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=36375[/url]).
I didn't know my company opened an office in the UK... |
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JimL
SQL Slinging Yak Ranger
1537 Posts |
Posted - 2005-06-07 : 09:21:36
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| Its a Little Scary.JimUsers <> Logic |
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Merkin
Funky Drop Bear Fearing SQL Dude!
4970 Posts |
Posted - 2005-06-07 : 09:35:47
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| Before I got sucked into that crap again I had a point to make.I probably seem like I have a huge problem with people who are out of their depth. I really don't though, because it's how I work. I get myself into situations where I'm out of my depth, and learn it very quick It looks like Steve (elwoos) works the same way.The difference is, some people learn and experiment and read and teach themselves what is going on, others just switch into moron mode and rely on others for everything. Asking questions when you are stuck is fine, but I'm amazed how little effort some people put in.However, as I've always said, without them, we wouldn't have a community here, and we turn some of them around and they end up being valuable members.DamianIta erat quando hic adveni. |
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Michael Valentine Jones
Yak DBA Kernel (pronounced Colonel)
7020 Posts |
Posted - 2005-06-07 : 10:28:15
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I wonder if there is a web site out there that answers questions for clueless managers, maybe ManagementTeam.com:"I cut staff by 40% and cut the pay of everyone else by 20%. Now the union is on strike, we aren't making any money, and I might have to cut my bonus. What can I do?""I changed the way we reconize revenue from sales, and now the external auditors won't sign off on the financial statements. If that happens, our stock price will drop and my options will be worthless. Help!"quote:
Originally posted by AndrewMurphy
"But that second group of people is still in employment. Generally they get by by relying entirely on other people to do their job for them."hmmmmm....generally going with the title of manager!!!
CODO ERGO SUM |
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jsmith8858
Dr. Cross Join
7423 Posts |
Posted - 2005-06-07 : 10:54:55
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| LOL ...I often think about if there was AutoMechanicTeam:"Help! A customer dropped a car off and it doesn't work. Can u help me fix it plz? thnx!""Hi! I am trying to fix the radiator, but I don't want to open the hood. I can almost get to it going through the glove compartment, but am getting stuck ... here's what I've done so far, can someone help me out?""Hi all! I don't know how to fix cars, but I just got a great job and I need some help. What is a steering wheel? Can someone help me out?""I have a problem. Someone dropped a car off and said it was low on air in one of the tires. What would happen if I fill the tire up with air? would that help?"- Jeff |
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AndyB13
Aged Yak Warrior
583 Posts |
Posted - 2005-06-07 : 10:59:16
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| You mean one of these[url]http://www.carmechanicsmag.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=mech[/url]Beauty is in the eyes of the beerholder |
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Merkin
Funky Drop Bear Fearing SQL Dude!
4970 Posts |
Posted - 2005-06-07 : 11:01:17
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| That's funny Jeff, just today I was thinking about EarthMovingEquipmentTeam.com "URGENT! I have a doubt, I am a bulldozer driver and have to begin work on a 40 story apartment building. How do I start the bulldozer ?"DamianIta erat quando hic adveni. |
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Kristen
Test
22859 Posts |
Posted - 2005-06-08 : 07:22:39
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| "Or is it just that a lot of them post on this site when they get in a jam?"Me: ... I worry about the ones that have NOT YET learned to post on a forum!Kristen |
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coolerbob
Aged Yak Warrior
841 Posts |
Posted - 2005-06-09 : 08:20:57
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| I think Mr mist makes a good point.I read many "microsoft ideal world" books - even passed some of the exams. But it's when you get into the real world that you really find out what you need to know that you dont know.It's brilliant that people who have worked with SQL for a while continue to contribute on this site to help each other out - so that we all dont have to make the same mistakes over and over. The time wasters dont stick round forever. Who really has the time and patience to teach someone everything about Relational Databases, SQL... OVER THE WEB. Not me.But then again, to follow on from Hog, "Pigs don't know pigs stink". Who do each of us compare ourselves to? I think I am generally not asking stupid questions, but to some of you I surely have.This is a dynamic site. If someone asks a question and it is evident they are out of their depth, I would hope someone would tell them that and that would be the end of it. |
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coolerbob
Aged Yak Warrior
841 Posts |
Posted - 2005-06-09 : 11:51:28
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| Case-in-point perhaps?http://www.sqlteam.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=50935 |
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Clueless in SQL?