| Author |
Topic |
|
Sitka
Aged Yak Warrior
571 Posts |
 Posted - 2002-11-18 : 09:32:03
|
| you spend some time getting some stuff working, think you did a good job, learned alot along the way, basically feel good and that you are getting somewhere. Then the focus shifts or expands, you start taking on tougher things and it becomes clear that you know absolutely nothing about this topic(or that topic) and they are huge, then it snowballs, and you realize you know nothing about a myriad of things that connect directly to what you are responsible for.This IT stuff, I can take being humbled by it but sometimes the vastness and directional choices are overwhelming. I've had other careers where I didn't feel this way.Voted best SQL forum nickname...."Tutorial-D" |
|
|
Crespo
85 Posts |
Posted - 2002-11-18 : 09:34:16
|
| OMG!Best Regards.Crespo.Hewitt Bacon & WoodrowEpsomSurreyUnited Kingdom |
 |
|
|
robvolk
Most Valuable Yak
15732 Posts |
Posted - 2002-11-18 : 10:37:09
|
Believe it or not, that feeling of "incompetence", the overwhelming aspect at least, is a good sign. At least you're not walking around around delusionally thinking you know everything.  You're in the deep end of the pool: just swim up, keep your head above water, you'll do fine. |
|
|
|
Crespo
85 Posts |
Posted - 2002-11-18 : 10:44:12
|
quote:
Believe it or not, that feeling of "incompetence", the overwhelming aspect at least, is a good sign. At least you're not walking around around delusionally thinking you know everything.
Ermm... thats exactly how I feel at the moment.By the way, does anybody know what a n00b means? n00b with double zeros not Os!! Go on... post your answers.Best Regards.Crespo.Hewitt Bacon & WoodrowEpsomSurreyUnited Kingdom |
|
|
|
Sitka
Aged Yak Warrior
571 Posts |
Posted - 2002-11-18 : 12:01:54
|
quote:
that feeling of "incompetence", the overwhelming aspect at least, is a good sign.
I can deal with the humbling nature of going from "knowing" I don't know, but when all you see is the "I don't knows" it can mess with you.The deep water metaphor is a good one, who wants to swim in the shallows, can't windsurf in the shallows either. That means no stoke, no stoke is suck.Half of this all comes from the little glimmer of relational thought this forum has granted me. I got a feeling there aren't too many folks walking around this town with that dirty little secret. It really has changed the way I think about alot of stuff, and makes a person wonder if there are other little toggles in your head that can be turned on. This place explained to me the answer to"Why do you want to use a cursor?" a loaded question if there ever was one. Just trying to find out the other$64,000 dollar questions in other aspects of work, this would help a person to work smart and with good direction.Another thing is where are the supporting staff around here.Beind versatile is one thing but there are limits. n00b means newbie but written in a dialect of "elite" (which is itself written l337)which means yo gots some mad skills and the matrix is yo home.Voted best SQL forum nickname...."Tutorial-D" |
|
|
|
nr
SQLTeam MVY
12543 Posts |
Posted - 2002-11-18 : 12:56:48
|
| >> Why do you want to use a cursor?Why do you want to use DTSWhy do you want to use bcpWhy do you want to use olapWhy do you want to use distributed transactionsWhy do you want to use a transactionWhy do you want to that in transact sqlWhy do you want to use replicationWhy do you want to use xmlWhy do you want to backup the transaction logWhy do you want to use another/the same databasethe list is large and growing.Usually the answer is one or more of.I want it on my CV.No one else knows it and I want to be indispensible.I don't know anything about it.It's new.I'm pretty useless and I hope this will do everything for me.It's a buzzword and makes me sound important.Long ago gave up trying to know all about VB.Now given up with sql server - I think it was the profiler that did it (wonder if there is a call for people to specialise in it?).==========================================Cursors are useful if you don't know sql.DTS can be used in a similar way.Beer is not cold and it isn't fizzy. |
|
|
|
M.E.
Aged Yak Warrior
539 Posts |
Posted - 2002-11-18 : 14:32:12
|
quote:
It's a buzzword and makes me sound important.
Learn to include words like synergy or best corporate practice as well :PHeh, anyone else feel their life is way too much like a dilbert comic book?-----------------------SQL isn't just a hobby, It's an addiction |
|
|
|
rrb
SQLTeam Poet Laureate
1479 Posts |
Posted - 2002-11-18 : 17:46:51
|
| Gee, I don't know the answer to any of nr's questions, but when I saw a topic on incompetence, well hey, finally a post in which I can let my expertise glisten!Marvel...--I hope that when I die someone will say of me "That guy sure owed me a lot of money"Edited by - rrb on 11/18/2002 17:47:24 |
|
|
|
AjarnMark
SQL Slashing Gunting Master
3246 Posts |
Posted - 2002-11-20 : 02:15:15
|
Sitka, I feel your pain. I recently finished a contract assignment, and was looking for a new one. I felt really good coming in, thinking I've got this SQL stuff down pretty good. There are a couple of areas I haven't dealt with yet, like replication, but outside of that, I was feeling good! I was even thinking maybe I'd just bust through the MCDBA tests for the "fun" of it and nab me a cert.Then I started exploring my weaker areas. A haunting quote (actually, one of my favorites, but still it haunts me at times) came back to me... The more you know, the more you know you don't know. And boy did I start to learn how much I didn't know. Ouch!And now my new contract will have me unravelling a bunch of cursors that were created as a Proof-of-concept. Now that they know it can be done, they want it done efficiently.  I'm sure I'll be back here to tap nr's brain a time or two...Hang in there! It means you're growing (which is a whole lot better than decaying!)Edited by - AjarnMark on 11/20/2002 02:16:47 |
|
|
|
Sitka
Aged Yak Warrior
571 Posts |
Posted - 2002-11-20 : 08:17:21
|
quote:
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
I've never had the opportunity to work with someone whose skills were very high (many here may qualify). But I imagine to truely be 1337 you have to really believe you know nothing... kind of like the ZEN notion of sartori.Is this a revisitation or evalution of spirituality, where the ego finally has to be buried once and for all. Leading to a path of enlightenment derived by focusing on the exponential expansion of technical disciplines. The western phiolosphers of old seemed to believe that with properly applied contemplations, eventually a solution or recipe for the human condition would be found. But then they never browsed MAN pages, or Technet, or the RFC's.Voted best SQL forum nickname...."Tutorial-D" |
|
|
|
robvolk
Most Valuable Yak
15732 Posts |
Posted - 2002-11-20 : 08:28:54
|
quote:
The western phiolosphers of old seemed to believe that with properly applied contemplations, eventually a solution or recipe for the human condition would be found.
How "old" are you talking about? Cause most of the really deep philosophers from 1800 and later were usually depressed, suicidal, dirt poor, used drugs or alcohol in abundance, and were generally miserable rambling bastards who made everyone else's lives equally miserable...whoa, I just described about 85% of SQL Server DBA's and developers... |
|
|
|
Arnold Fribble
Yak-finder General
1961 Posts |
Posted - 2002-11-20 : 08:34:43
|
| Fred Nietzsche was a DBA?"MS-GOD is dead."(sorry, that doesn't really work, does it -- too many implicit conversions needed -- GOD -> DOG -> DOS) ...this joke is dead. (No, it's just resting)Edited by - Arnold Fribble on 11/20/2002 08:37:42 |
|
|
|
Crespo
85 Posts |
Posted - 2002-11-20 : 08:38:38
|
| May I join the club?I am suppose to be an IT contractor and I can safely say that I am crap at using SQL-Server. I did a 'programming test' at my current company a few months back and did better than the average progammer (with 3 years experience in the IT industry). I almost have 2 I know I am getting there, but yea... sometimes I feel like I know nothing. The main thing though, is not how much you know or don't know, but it's whether you are WILLING to let your brain accept more. There are times when I receieve a nasty looking script and think, 'F**K that.. I am just gonna run it and see what happens. If it works, GRRREAT.. if it doesn't then I am screwed!' but now.. I try and study each and every line and see what he hell is going on.You can never know everything and if you DO know everything then you're a freak! One thing I like about being a human is that you can never know everything and there is ALWAYS some bastard who knows more than you But guess what people... I can honestly say this....I KNOW EVERYTHING!!!and you know why? because I am not human.... I am a Night Elf! Best Regards.Crespo.Hewitt Bacon & WoodrowEpsomSurreyUnited Kingdom |
|
|
|
JustinBigelow
SQL Gigolo
1157 Posts |
Posted - 2002-11-20 : 09:23:47
|
quote:
Fred Nietzsche was a DBA?...this joke is dead. (No, it's just resting)
When you can effortlessly seque from a philosiphy joke to a Python reference (the comedy troupe not the language) you have reached true enlightenment.Justin |
|
|
|
jsmith8858
Dr. Cross Join
7423 Posts |
Posted - 2002-11-20 : 09:25:50
|
| It is NOT what you know, it's what you are capable of UNDERSTANDING.I feel I KNOW less than almost anyone else in the programming/IT world (I don't spend all my free time playing on the computer), but I am lucky in that I have a good understanding of logic and computers in general.That is, it is not important to know offhand the answer to numerous "test questions" you can memorize to get certified. It is important to be able to derive those answers yourself and understand what they mean.An IT guy here talked about why a computer was running slow. He said he ran the system monitor and noticed lots of page faults, so that must be it. I asked him if he knew what a page fault is .... he had absolutely no idea.- JeffEdited by - jsmith8858 on 11/20/2002 09:27:18 |
|
|
|
robvolk
Most Valuable Yak
15732 Posts |
Posted - 2002-11-20 : 09:33:36
|
quote:
That is, it is not important to know offhand the answer to numerous "test questions" you can memorize to get certified. It is important to be able to derive those answers yourself and understand what they mean.
I need to frame that Jeff, hope you don't mind if I borrow it from you. Nicely put! |
|
|
|
nr
SQLTeam MVY
12543 Posts |
Posted - 2002-11-20 : 09:43:44
|
| But "page fault" doesn't sound like a good thing.Contractor with almost 2 years experience! I remember the days when that would have been thought laughable - but now it seems that 2 years on a single product is thought highly skilled (and rightly so considering the number of experts with no experience at all).I always like feasibility studies - if you're trying something new write test harnesses to try out as many variations and possible, see what happens when it fails, see what happens if it's run multiple times consecutively and concurrently.I see too many systems written based on technology that is only really tested in the full system test.AND THINK ABOUT THE ARCHITECTUREWhat owns each process, what owns each piece of data, do these change and how.==========================================Cursors are useful if you don't know sql.DTS can be used in a similar way.Beer is not cold and it isn't fizzy. |
|
|
|
Crespo
85 Posts |
Posted - 2002-11-20 : 09:49:31
|
quote:
Contractor with almost 2 years experience! I remember the days when that would have been thought laughable - but now it seems that 2 years on a single product is thought highly skilled (and rightly so considering the number of experts with no experience at all).
Ummm... and what is wrong with two years experience? {well almost}.. apart from being a good looking guy, I am also a good programmer, so maybe that's why they kepe extending my contract here! I was in Paris last year and within a couple of months, even the 'Accenture' boys were asking me for help! What a bunch of n00bs.... honestly, I was doing more work than the contractors who earned 400 quid a day!  I am not only skilled with SQL Server.. I am actually obsessed with a piece of software called 'Povray' does anybody know it?Anyway... thanks for the insult nr...  Best Regards.Crespo.Hewitt Bacon & WoodrowEpsomSurreyUnited Kingdom |
|
|
|
Sitka
Aged Yak Warrior
571 Posts |
Posted - 2002-11-20 : 09:52:10
|
| Immanuel Kant was a real pissant Who was very rarely stable Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar Who could think you under the table David Hume could out consume Schopenhauer and Hegel And Wittgenstein was a beery swine Who was just as schloshed as Schlegel There's nothing Nietzsche couldn't teach ya 'Bout the raising of the wrist Socrates, himself, was permanently pissedJohn Stuart Mill, of his own free will On half a pint of shandy was particularly ill Plato they say, could stick it away Half a crate of whiskey every day Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle Hobbes was fond of his dram And René Descartes was a drunken fart "I drink, therefore I am"Yes, Socrates, himself, is particularly missed A lovely little thinker But a bugger when he's pissed Voted best SQL forum nickname...."Tutorial-D" |
|
|
|
mr_mist
Grunnio
1870 Posts |
Posted - 2002-11-20 : 10:08:41
|
| I don't think that it's all about years of experience. I've known plenty of people with many years of experience who seem as though they haven't learnt anything whilst going through them. If you spend your twenty years with your head firmly implanted up your own backside then you're not likely to be any better than the latest kid fresh out of school. Likewise if you are that kid out of school and you go around believing you know everything then you're never likely to learn about how things *really* work.Seems to me though that it's not about knowing stuff, it's about understanding it. You can know a whole tonne of things, but unless you understand all of it then when the brown stuff moves towards the rotating object you won't be much use. |
|
|
|
Crespo
85 Posts |
Posted - 2002-11-20 : 10:12:03
|
quote:
when the brown stuff moves towards the rotating object you won't be much use.
Come on man! just say it... when the SHIT HITS THE FAN... I don't think many people would get upset here and if they do then tough! Best Regards.Crespo.Hewitt Bacon & WoodrowEpsomSurreyUnited Kingdom |
|
|
|
Next Page
|
Musings on incompetence.