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nr
SQLTeam MVY
12543 Posts |
 Posted - 2004-02-20 : 06:28:37
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| Just thought I would share this post with youand also test if the site is working as there doesn't seem to be any activityI am basically a FoxPro programmer. I have developed several projects in FoxPro. Now, in one of my client's place, I need to convert the existing FoxPro program to Visual Basic as per their request. I have only 30 days time given by the company. The software is a billing software for a leading hotel.I have learnt the basic technics of VB & MS-Access (by trial & error method). can you suggest some VB code which is useful for billing (involves item entry, bill print etc) ? OR can you suggest any website where I can find answers for my VB queries as have internet access OR can you suggest a book for learnig Programming ?Please let me knowRegards,xxxxxxxBangalore, India==========================================Cursors are useful if you don't know sql.DTS can be used in a similar way.Beer is not cold and it isn't fizzy. |
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JimL
SQL Slinging Yak Ranger
1537 Posts |
Posted - 2004-02-20 : 07:53:15
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Caught me of guard there a miniute Nigel. Was wondering if you had deveoped Alzheimer’s or something. JimUsers <> Logic |
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SamC
White Water Yakist
3467 Posts |
Posted - 2004-02-20 : 08:49:59
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| Seems like a cruel hoax. Any chance of posting follow up notes during the next 30 days? |
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X002548
Not Just a Number
15586 Posts |
Posted - 2004-02-20 : 09:01:56
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quote:
Originally posted by nr
Regards,xxxxxxxBangalore, India
hmmmmmm.....outsourcing perhaps?Hope the company rents the rooms free for a year....Brett8-) |
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SamC
White Water Yakist
3467 Posts |
Posted - 2004-02-20 : 11:12:13
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| I was approched by someone I know to hire a full-time programmer in China for about $4,500 USD / year.I can see the temptation. What I've never understood is if software projects barely get done on-time and correctly under one roof, same timezone, everyone speaking the same language, then what is lost when you move a chunk of the development team into a time zone 12 hours away speaking a different language?. |
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MichaelP
Jedi Yak
2489 Posts |
Posted - 2004-02-20 : 11:41:11
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| I totally with you on this. I realize there is some advantage to moving some things off-shore, but I don't think that software is one of them. There always seems to be things lost in translation.Michael<Yoda>Use the Search page you must. Find the answer you will.</Yoda> |
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X002548
Not Just a Number
15586 Posts |
Posted - 2004-02-20 : 11:55:10
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quote:
Originally posted by nr
and also test if the site is working as there doesn't seem to be any activity
Gotta get on the first page of google....Brett8-) |
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JimL
SQL Slinging Yak Ranger
1537 Posts |
Posted - 2004-02-20 : 12:45:49
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Talk about off shore.Try contacting Tech support for Compaq or Dell.When you do get a live body.What? What? What? Hold........................... What? What? What? Im sorry my supervisior is not available.%^&*@!)& Click. JimUsers <> Logic |
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The Enigma
Posting Yak Master
179 Posts |
Posted - 2004-02-20 : 16:31:50
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| The only way left on SQL Team to test out the site is to hit out on Indian Programmers ... it is disgusting to see that ... This is one of the things that puts me off and keeps me away from this otherwise good site for days altogether.Yeah!! I know ... Americans are the smartest people in the world ... and people living anywhere else in the world are outright dumb. Outsourcing .. why not ?? The best programmers in India are availible in India at fraction of the cost it would take to hire the developer in the US. Well ... let me see ... even I am ready to work for anyone (12 Hrs Day at your time) from offshore for 15000 USD/Year ... What do you say about that ... and thats pretty high wages I am quoting for someone working in India :).Enigma |
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tkizer
Almighty SQL Goddess
38200 Posts |
Posted - 2004-02-20 : 17:07:03
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| Enigma, I think that you are getting the wrong impression of us. Some of us might be bitter/sad/angry/... about the jobs in America being outsourced to India, but that doesn't mean that we think that we are smarter. The problem is that some of these jobs are going to less-qualified people who can't even get the job done right.Tara |
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MichaelP
Jedi Yak
2489 Posts |
Posted - 2004-02-20 : 17:15:03
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| This is going along with Enigma's post. I look at the post and the poster when determing if I plan on answering. If I smell an offshore person, I choose not to post an answer. Why should I train my replacement??Michael<Yoda>Use the Search page you must. Find the answer you will.</Yoda> |
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SamC
White Water Yakist
3467 Posts |
Posted - 2004-02-20 : 17:17:09
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| Nigel's in the UK. My remarks stand on outsourcing software development from anywhere to anywhere. |
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The Enigma
Posting Yak Master
179 Posts |
Posted - 2004-02-20 : 17:20:43
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quote:
Originally posted by tduggan
The problem is that some of these jobs are going to less-qualified people who can't even get the job done right.Tara
Do these kind of less qualified people not exist in US?? I am amazed how anyone can make such statements. Why hit against outsourcing only ... quote:
I am basically a FoxPro programmer. I have developed several projects in FoxPro. Now, in one of my client's place, I need to convert the existing FoxPro program to Visual Basic as per their request. I have only 30 days time given by the company. The software is a billing software for a leading hotel.I have learnt the basic technics of VB & MS-Access (by trial & error method). can you suggest some VB code which is useful for billing (involves item entry, bill print etc) ? OR can you suggest any website where I can find answers for my VB queries as have internet access OR can you suggest a book for learnig Programming ?
On reading this post minutely now ... i even do not see how the above post is remotely related to outsourcing ??? The guy clearly says that he has worked on Foxpro ... and needs some help converting to VB. As I see it , he can understand the foxpro code but does not know how to change the same to VB. Why do you guys see each and everything as outsourcing ??? Have you never taken any help learning a new language ... or if you dont see any reason why a person such as this one should be asking for help finding some resources ... tell me ... what is this site (and may others like this one) intended for ??Enigma |
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The Enigma
Posting Yak Master
179 Posts |
Posted - 2004-02-20 : 17:23:24
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaelP
This is going along with Enigma's post. I look at the post and the poster when determing if I plan on answering. If I smell an offshore person, I choose not to post an answer. Why should I train my replacement??Michael<Yoda>Use the Search page you must. Find the answer you will.</Yoda>
You mean .. I should not reply when I see a post from a person in US or UK coz it might ruin my chance of working there (ya .. I admit ... I also fancy those high salaries you guys are getting)Enigma |
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tkizer
Almighty SQL Goddess
38200 Posts |
Posted - 2004-02-20 : 17:24:23
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| I would be upset if a less-qualified person replaced me in the U.S. as well.And we never said that the intial post was about outsourcing, the topic just went that way.Tara |
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AjarnMark
SQL Slashing Gunting Master
3246 Posts |
Posted - 2004-02-20 : 20:16:08
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quote:
Originally posted by The Enigma
(ya .. I admit ... I also fancy those high salaries you guys are getting)
I know a lot of developers here who also "fancy those high salaries" that they USED TO get. Things have changed a lot in the last 3 years. But let me ask this, do you also fancy the high cost of living we pay? Here in the greater Seattle area (you know, home to Microsoft) small houses anywhere near a city cost $350,000 and up. Cars cost $25,000 and up. Our mass transit is mediocre, so you better have a car. And if you want a cheaper house, then be prepared to spend a minimum of 1 hour on the road each way.There are plenty of trade-offs. You just have to decide which you are willing to deal with. Just like in outsourcing, there are trade-offs. There are highly skilled people all over the world. But when you work a project, there are communication issues (not just language barriers, but also time, proximity, and so on.) It's harder to work with someone local, but working from home, than it is to work with someone local sitting in the cubicle next to yours. It's even harder to work with someone hundreds or thousands of miles away. I am about 850 miles away from my primary client, but we both speak American English, and are in the same time zone. And you know what? There are times when it is a HUGE PAIN to deal with. It'd be a LOT easier if I could just walk down the hall to clarify the project requirements.So project management will become even more of a critical skill as the workers become more and more geographically diverse, even with the highest skilled workers.As for the original post, I feel bad for whoever the person is. It sounds like they might be in over their head. I hope they paddle fast enough to make it work out. Unfortunately, whoever gave them the project also dictated the timeline, and if there was no negotiation on that, it could be a recipe for disaster, even if the developer knew the languages inside and out. Best of luck to them!--------------------------------------------------------------Find more words of wisdom at [url]http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/markc[/url] |
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The Enigma
Posting Yak Master
179 Posts |
Posted - 2004-02-20 : 20:50:19
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quote:
Originally posted by AjarnMark
quote:
Originally posted by The Enigma
(ya .. I admit ... I also fancy those high salaries you guys are getting)
I know a lot of developers here who also "fancy those high salaries" that they USED TO get. Things have changed a lot in the last 3 years. But let me ask this, do you also fancy the high cost of living we pay? Here in the greater Seattle area (you know, home to Microsoft) small houses anywhere near a city cost $350,000 and up. Cars cost $25,000 and up. Our mass transit is mediocre, so you better have a car. And if you want a cheaper house, then be prepared to spend a minimum of 1 hour on the road each way.There are plenty of trade-offs. You just have to decide which you are willing to deal with. Just like in outsourcing, there are trade-offs. There are highly skilled people all over the world. But when you work a project, there are communication issues (not just language barriers, but also time, proximity, and so on.) It's harder to work with someone local, but working from home, than it is to work with someone local sitting in the cubicle next to yours. It's even harder to work with someone hundreds or thousands of miles away. I am about 850 miles away from my primary client, but we both speak American English, and are in the same time zone. And you know what? There are times when it is a HUGE PAIN to deal with. It'd be a LOT easier if I could just walk down the hall to clarify the project requirements.So project management will become even more of a critical skill as the workers become more and more geographically diverse, even with the highest skilled workers.As for the original post, I feel bad for whoever the person is. It sounds like they might be in over their head. I hope they paddle fast enough to make it work out. Unfortunately, whoever gave them the project also dictated the timeline, and if there was no negotiation on that, it could be a recipe for disaster, even if the developer knew the languages inside and out. Best of luck to them!--------------------------------------------------------------Find more words of wisdom at [url]http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/markc[/url]
Well .. you have clearly outlined the problems that are being faced over at you end ... but the ratio of earning / cost of living is almost the same here. Talking about it ... average salary is Rs 300,000 per Year (equivalent to about 6700 $ per year) ... a small house costs Rs 1,200,000 (27000$) and above ... a decent car costs about Rs 400,000 (7500$) . The place I am staying at is 20 Km from my place of work (45 minutes drive coz of traffic problems) ... again for the same reasons of cost.Talking about clients ... the same applies ... I am working from Mumbai, India for a client in Delhi which is again 1200 km ... Believe it ... IT industry is almost the same everywhere .. you need to get a grip on your complaining and work things out .Enigma |
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X002548
Not Just a Number
15586 Posts |
Posted - 2004-02-20 : 20:54:10
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| First: (and foremost): I am disconcerted with the topicSecond: This is not Rocket science. (Although I must admit, some people here have posted stuff that blew my mind)Third: Actually, First, I apologize if anyone is offended. This Topic Has NOTHING to do with any ones competence(sp?)Fourth: The bottom line is absolute. Corp America is cutting expense to the bare bone...regardeless if it makes sense ( I wonder when they'll be held to the business of revenue generation.. )Fith: Outsorcing: Being from the US, the market will bare what the market will bareSixth: And it comes down to, if you can buy a quality product, you will...if it's not you may, but will ALTER your opinionIn short Enigma, I think you're brilliant.As far as outsourcing goes...I've just haven't had the best experience...doesn't matter the longitude /latitude.In Short, There's no need for argument, or hurt feeling, the market will bare what the market will bare...we have no sayI wish I had the opportunity to work with. It'd be a pleasure.Too be honest, I haven't had comptence to deal with recently.PS OH and Yeah...lots of scrubs here....http://www.dbforums.com/member.php?action=getinfo&userid=18805PPS I again, apologize for any offense I may have offered here. I found this site as a global community. We all will have our polictical/social/economic difference, but SQL transednce allSorry for the diatribe...my margaritta is calling...Brett8-) |
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Merkin
Funky Drop Bear Fearing SQL Dude!
4970 Posts |
Posted - 2004-02-20 : 22:02:22
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| If you take the Bangalore India bit off that email and forget about it, that scenario is very common. I have been put on a project because of skills in one thing, only to have to develop in a totally different platform. Because the client wanted it, and the client was paying the bills, that's how it had to be.I believe this has nothing to do with outsourcing, and everything to do with the unrealistic expectations of some clients.... and I'm sure we can all relate to that.Damian |
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Sitka
Aged Yak Warrior
571 Posts |
Posted - 2004-02-20 : 22:55:52
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| we used to have a saying around here."Buy the cars your neighbors helped to build"This is only an isolationist view on the surface.If a society values community and you removethe connection between folks when providing/receivinga service, extending charity, watching out for orhelping each other in our own backyards where can it lead?The end result will be nothing other than estrangement,exploitation, discontent, and lack of accountabilityfor doing good works.A disconnected state is fine for recordsets, not for people.It is a rich creamy color with a high fat content of 5-7 percent. Being so high in fat, it is usually processed into butter, cheese, or yogurt. An average cow will produce 110 kg. Milk in a lactation period of an average of 149 days |
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nr
SQLTeam MVY
12543 Posts |
Posted - 2004-02-20 : 22:56:57
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| Doesn't matter where this guy comes from or how much he costs the problem is (actually I missed the hotel bit)A person writing a system for a leading Hotel chain who has no experience in the language.That he wants to learn the language is fine but that someone would get him to write this system on his own is not.It's not limitted to India or small projects - look at all the goverment system developements that have failed - after being run by large expensive software houses who put people in charge of design who are good talkers but of dubious technical experience.Looking at a post like that and just seeing India and not the actual problem says more about the viewer than the post.==========================================Cursors are useful if you don't know sql.DTS can be used in a similar way.Beer is not cold and it isn't fizzy. |
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