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robvolk
Most Valuable Yak
15732 Posts |
 Posted - 2003-02-11 : 20:40:01
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A  to anyone who can identify that title.  Some more info on Yukon and VS.Net:http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104-984129.htmlHowever, I'm somewhat perturbed by the following quote from the article:quote:
With Yukon, Microsoft will enhance its SQL Server database so that it can house Microsoft's Common Language Runtime (CLR), which allows programs written in several languages to access SQL Server data. Adding the CLR to SQL Server will lower the skill level required to write database programs, Microsoft executives said.
Ummmmm, I hate to tell you this Bill, Steve, and the Yukon dev team, but right now, a retarded paraplegic chimpanzee can use SQL Server 2000 and develop an app with it. There are plenty of HUMANS who are even less intellectually endowed using it now! Seriously, these are people who do not have the mental capacity to flip burgers at McDonald's, and they are using SQL Server. This is based on the nature of a number of questions posted here on SQL Team. I'm sure if I hit the SQL Server newsgroups I'll find tons more examples of evolution running in reverse.Am I griping? Yeah! Am I exaggerating for the sake of making a point? Not really. I don't think "lowering the skill level" is good for either the industry, the product, or even the company making the product. It really scares me when I read questions here like "I work for a major national bank and we use SQL Server. I accidentally ran an UPDATE statement that zero'd out everyone's account balances, and we don't have any backups. Is there anything you can do to help me?" And we all know that it's possible for that particular "DBA" to have an MS certification on top of everything.Sure, it's a neat trick to click a button in Word or Excel and have it create an entire SQL Server based application, but it DOES NOT instantly grant the user with the necessary knowledge to use it properly. I'm not sure if you MS guys know this, so I'd like to tell you straight on. I don't mind if you add features and make it easier to use, but PLEASE don't sell it as "now easier for even the dumbest dumbshits to use!"Seriously, would you really want the banjo player from Deliverance managing a nuclear power plant? (and before anyone says it, yes, even Homer Simpson is smarter than a lot of SQL Server developers out there) Rant over. Thank you. |
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simondeutsch
Aged Yak Warrior
547 Posts |
Posted - 2003-02-11 : 22:47:42
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| Ummm...I gotta admit, I've done some VERY stupid things in SQL Server (accidentally!), and I'm not really asking for any dumbing down of dev. products. But seriously, users will continue to be just as dumb as they are, but they will be able to run several more new wizards to set up bad databases, etc.A perfect example of dumb users (a true story): My company sells medical practice management software, and a billing clerk recently told us how she posts payments (they have been using this software for several years): If the payment received from an insurance company is less than the amount billed, they post the payment, then go back into the charge and change the charge amount to the paid amount. Never heard of adjustments... Which is of course right there on the Payments screen, idiot!Sarah Berger MCSD |
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mohdowais
Sheikh of Yak Knowledge
1456 Posts |
Posted - 2003-02-12 : 02:59:50
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quote:
It really scares me when I read questions here like "I work for a major national bank and we use SQL Server. I accidentally ran an UPDATE statement that zero'd out everyone's account balances, and we don't have any backups. Is there anything you can do to help me?"
LOL, rob...you hit the nail right on the head!I was so happy to see that VB.NET was so much better (and tougher  )than VB6, but absolutely hated the "easy-to-use" spin Microsoft's PR dept put on it. They make it sound like chimps are gonna take over the programmer's job in a few years  .OS |
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Page47
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
2878 Posts |
Posted - 2003-02-12 : 07:21:16
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quote:
The Yukon SongFrom: Yukon Ho!My tiger friend has got the sled,And I have packed a snack.We're all set for the trip ahead.We're never coming back!We're abandoing this life we've led!So long, Mom and Pop!We're sick of doing what youve said,And now it's going to stop!We're going where it snows all year,Where life can have real meaning.A place where we wont have to hear,"Your room could stand some cleaning."The Yukon is the place for us!That's where we want to live.Up there we'll ge to yell and cussAnd act real primitive.We'll never have to go to school,Forced into submission,By monst, crabby teachers who'llMake us learn addition.We'll never have to clean a plate,Of veggie glops and goos.Messily we'll masticate,Using any fork we choose!The timber wolves will be our friends.Well stay up late and howl,At the moon, till nightmare ends,Before going on the prowl.Oh, what a life! we cannot wait,To be in that arctic land,Where we'll be masters of our fate,And lead a life that's grand!No more of parental rules!We're heading for some snow!Good riddance to those grown-up-ghouls!We're leaving! Yukon Ho!
Yeah Rob, there is not shortage of dummies in the industry. The fact that Bill's marketing department has determined that targeting the dummies will yield the highest returns just proves that the dummies are the majority.On the other hand, think about how many more effed up databases there will be in production ripe for the contractor's picking ... Don't worry, it will all backlash someday.Jay White{0} |
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chadmat
The Chadinator
1974 Posts |
Posted - 2003-02-17 : 18:11:47
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| Rob,I think you are misunderstanding the point. A lot of the clients I have worked at, the developers are great coders, but they have absolutley no database knowledge. And Vice Versa for the DBAs. Yukon will try to bridge this gap and make it easier for Developers to write database logic in the language of thier choice. However, while I am a company guy, I think this goal is a bit idealistic, because those folks that can't write an SP in TSQL aren't going to understand well enough to do it in C#. But, it is a first step. Integrating the IDE, and integrated debugging will make it a bit more comfortable to write DB apps more easily.-Chad |
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Merkin
Funky Drop Bear Fearing SQL Dude!
4970 Posts |
Posted - 2003-02-18 : 08:00:52
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quote:
the developers are great coders, but they have absolutley no database knowledge. And Vice Versa for the DBAs. Yukon will try to bridge this gap and make it easier for Developers to write database logic in the language of thier choice.
You say that like it's a good thingquote:
However, while I am a company guy
Hmmm, someone told me you left .... (Rob, Graz ?)Welcome back to SQL Team anyway, it's been a while. Always good to have you here answering questions.Damian |
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X002548
Not Just a Number
15586 Posts |
Posted - 2003-02-18 : 15:38:35
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| Easy to use? Allowing programmers access to the database? Have you ever seen a developer code? Justy got off a OS/390 project for peoplesoft...the developer wondered why his DB2 program ran in 8 hours....Well, 12 levels of nested cursors might have something to do with it...Rewrote it and it ran in 15 seconds...Now lets talk about block, nested transactions, cpmmit points.....and on and on and on and on..ad infinitum....while it's not rockets science, you have to be very very careful (no?)Anti-Wizard fanBrett8-) |
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rrb
SQLTeam Poet Laureate
1479 Posts |
Posted - 2003-02-18 : 19:56:15
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| Hey rob, I think you're being pretty unfair... Firstly, some of those chimps are really smart! And just because they're retarded and paraplegic doesn't mean they can't write perfect TSQL!Next you slight MacDonald's burger flippers - but some very intelligent Literature students do that for a living!Next, Homer is a legend (didn't you see the episode where he learned the entire english dictionary off by heart overnight!)Next, those dumb questions were from me (sorry about those accounts guys...) and so you seem to be suggesting that I have an MS Cert...which I categorically deny!!!Lastly, I'd like to complain about a small matter of demarcation. What the hell were you thinking, Page?!!!!--I hope that when I die someone will say of me "That guy sure owed me a lot of money" |
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chadmat
The Chadinator
1974 Posts |
Posted - 2003-02-18 : 22:52:39
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Hmmm, someone told me you left .... (Rob, Graz ?)Welcome back to SQL Team anyway, it's been a while. Always good to have you here answering questions.Damian
Nope, still happily employed. I have just been knee deep in .Net code for the last few months (And the forseeable future). Haven't had much time to come in and check out the forums. I'm trying to make more time to come in and see if I can help some folks out. However, the low hanging fruit doesn't last long anymore. There are so many great posters here, all the easy stuff gets answered right away.-Chad |
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Tim
Starting Member
392 Posts |
Posted - 2003-02-20 : 21:40:45
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| flippin gburgers at mcdonalds is not that different to sql. I know cos Ive done both.They are both about efficiency and capacity. |
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M.E.
Aged Yak Warrior
539 Posts |
Posted - 2003-02-21 : 17:14:14
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| I've tried running a trace on a burger flipper. He got ticked off pretty quickly after I told him I though he was the bottle neck.-----------------------SQL isn't just a hobby, It's an addictionEdited by - M.E. on 02/24/2003 14:55:53 |
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Yukon Ho!