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PaulTeal
Yak Posting Veteran
67 Posts |
 Posted - 2003-04-03 : 07:22:19
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| My boss is an ASP Developer, his boss does some development in MS Access. I do all the programming on our SQL Server. My boss' boss is always hinting to my boss that I make things more complicated than I need to and that I take too long to get things done. His two main examples are that I cannot create an SQL Server application as quickly as he can create an Access one, and that I write SQL code rather than build queries in the the graphic editor in Enterprise Manager. Having never really used the graphic editor I am unsure how to respond. Do any of you use the graphic editor? Can you use it to make more complicated constructs like derived tables, etc?Do you have any suggestions for how to successfully deal with situation? Or have any of you been in a similar situation?Paul Tealpaul@partytilyoupop.com |
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robvolk
Most Valuable Yak
15732 Posts |
Posted - 2003-04-03 : 07:46:29
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No, you really can't use it to create derived tables/subqueries, not without essentially doing it twice. And the design grid only works with tables and views.Why not ask your boss's boss to write all of the company's enterprise applications in MS Access, since he's so much faster than you?  Ask him to explain how speed and ease OF DEVELOPMENT are so much more important that reliability, data integrity, performance, and durability. Make sure he includes a transaction log, backup and restore features, and everything else that SQL Server provides, in his Access app. Ask him to set up replication and user security in MS Access, and actually make it work. Don't go on the defensive, have him prove his assertions (and you know he can't). And see how well the visual tools do a CASE expression in SQL Server. |
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Merkin
Funky Drop Bear Fearing SQL Dude!
4970 Posts |
Posted - 2003-04-03 : 07:47:28
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| 3 things1. Ask him to write a query that needs a corellated subquery (I think that makes access crap itself).2. Fire up Microsoft's Web App stress testing tool and open up a multi threaded can of whoopass on ASP/Access vs ASP/SQL Server.failing that....3. Tell them to take the job and shove it I had a boss once that tried to convince me that Frontpage was a "Professional Web Development tool" and I should learn to appreciate it. I left Damian |
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Page47
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
2878 Posts |
Posted - 2003-04-03 : 07:56:32
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| IT is such a backwards world.If you were a doc in a hospital, most likely your boss used to be a doc and is not a chief ... he's done your job and probably knows it better than you.If you were a construction worker, most likely the forman use to be a construction worker ... he's done your job and probably knows it better than you.If you were a cop, most likely your sarge used to be a beat cop ...But since you are in IT, you boss probably has a philosophy degree or some bull shit. He probably thinks a transitive dependency is an addiction to the persuit of knowledge as it exists as a real social object in the transitive dimension, independent of mental activity.I don't use the SQL Server GUI for much of anything. Maybe you should ask your boss's boss to teach you how to use it. IT managers generally like to be fluffed like that ... (YMMV)Jay White{0} |
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Andraax
Aged Yak Warrior
790 Posts |
Posted - 2003-04-03 : 08:38:38
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| We have had an access application with up to 50 concurrent users, using an access GUI. Damn did we have problems with it... If one day went by without the database needing repairs or compression, we were overjoyed. Honestly, I wouldn't advice anyone to use access for more than maybe 5-user systems, whithout any demand on stability, performance, etc. |
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Merkin
Funky Drop Bear Fearing SQL Dude!
4970 Posts |
Posted - 2003-04-03 : 08:48:17
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HaYeah I used to work in a company a few years ago that had a timesheet app in Access. Every 2 weeks an email would go out from the finance dept saying "Everyone fill out your timesheets now". 3 Minutes later, one from the IT dept saying "STOP!!!! close down your timesheet program until further notice". It was a regular dance we came to know and love  Damian |
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PaulTeal
Yak Posting Veteran
67 Posts |
Posted - 2003-04-03 : 08:57:19
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| Plus, there is something seriously screwed up with a guy that hires me to be a developer, then complains because I am writing code.Paul Tealpaul@partytilyoupop.com |
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PaulTeal
Yak Posting Veteran
67 Posts |
Posted - 2003-04-03 : 08:59:17
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| I know what you are saying is true, and I feel the same way. But what is a constructive way for me to handle the situation? I don't want to quit or try to one-up him. I just want to deal with this professionally, even if he is not.Paul Tealpaul@partytilyoupop.com |
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jsmith8858
Dr. Cross Join
7423 Posts |
Posted - 2003-04-03 : 09:10:07
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| Paul -- in the meantime, a few tricks:1) for subqueries, just write the innermost query using the graphic tools (make make sure to use alias's and all that). When the innermost query is done, go to the SQL section and surround the code like this:SELECT *FROM (... the entire current sql statement) AnyAliasWhen you click "CHECK", it will put the entire subquery in a "table" in the above graphic view, and you can continue from there. 2) Also, you can use the graphic view as a starting point to throw some tables together, grab the fields you like, assign some alias's, do some joins, and then just cut and paste what it generates into QA and go from there. That can be a good way to beginners to learn. Even for "pros", if you are including 30 fields in your view, this can be must faster than trying to type them all3) Because Access is so quick and dirty, sometimes it is much quicker to model your basic tables and relationships in Access, throw in some dummy data, do some queries (even quick report) and all that, and basically get to the point where logically it is all sound. Yes, everyone hates access here, but if you use it correctly, it is just as much a RDMS as SQL Server -- Access doesn't FORCE you to add autonumbers and all that ! Anyway, this can be quite quick and faster than scripting and generating data and all that (you can do lots of cut and pasting) and you can get to the point where things look pretty solid. Then, just create the objects in SQL server using the Access DB as a template. Just focus on the actuall tables and relationships and views, and in SQL server is where you can focus on stored procedures and triggers and all that.Just some suggestions, I hope they help a little!- JeffEdited by - jsmith8858 on 04/03/2003 09:11:24 |
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jsmith8858
Dr. Cross Join
7423 Posts |
Posted - 2003-04-03 : 09:17:50
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quote:
But since you are in IT, you boss probably has a philosophy degree or some bull shit.
Actually, Philosophy does teach a good deal of logic, so that one's not as bad as the others! With the big technology boom of the nineties, many people were hired (and still are working) without any formal computer science training. I'm curious how many SQL Teamer's have a CS degree. Even worse, many here probably have MIS degrees !!!(just kidding about MIS, but if you were a CS major you know what I'm talking about - Jeff |
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Merkin
Funky Drop Bear Fearing SQL Dude!
4970 Posts |
Posted - 2003-04-03 : 09:19:43
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quote:
but if you use it correctly, it is just as much a RDMS as SQL Server
Oh man, I think it is time I went to sleep.I don't want to be around for the bloodbath that is bound to follow that comment  Damian |
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Merkin
Funky Drop Bear Fearing SQL Dude!
4970 Posts |
Posted - 2003-04-03 : 09:20:50
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quote:
With the big technology boom of the nineties, many people were hired (and still are working) without any formal computer science training. I'm curious how many SQL Teamer's have a CS degree.
I have a music degree.Damian |
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jsmith8858
Dr. Cross Join
7423 Posts |
Posted - 2003-04-03 : 09:22:20
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| Combine that with my MIS commment and things should pick up around here!But seriously, there's nothing stopping anyone in Access from writing a fully normalized, relational database with integretiy between all tables, no "autonumbers", etc..Is there?- Jeff |
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Crespo24
Village Idiot
144 Posts |
Posted - 2003-04-03 : 09:29:29
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quote:
quote:
With the big technology boom of the nineties, many people were hired (and still are working) without any formal computer science training. I'm curious how many SQL Teamer's have a CS degree.
I have a music degree.Damian
I am sorry, but could you please remove my email address from your database?I keep getting emails sent to my inbox at work everytime peole post a message and it's clogging up my inbox.Sorry to have to come back here again as I did promise that I wouldn't annoy people here anymore.Thanks in advance.P.S.I know I made the same request a few months back but it is causing me a problem. This is actually me! (the real person) saying this, not the person I was pretending to be previously. |
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jsmith8858
Dr. Cross Join
7423 Posts |
Posted - 2003-04-03 : 09:34:23
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| Crespo --just unsubscribe to the forum. I hope things are going well for you.- Jeff |
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Merkin
Funky Drop Bear Fearing SQL Dude!
4970 Posts |
Posted - 2003-04-03 : 09:34:24
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| You are obviously logged in. Unsubscribe yourself.Can you manage ?Damian |
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Crespo24
Village Idiot
144 Posts |
Posted - 2003-04-03 : 09:37:50
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quote:
You are obviously logged in. Unsubscribe yourself.Can you manage ?Damian
Do not fuck with me please.... I really don't have time for this anymore.I asked you nicely so reply nicely... (i.e. practice what you preach)I am logged in because I just logged in to ask you to remove my login name... I have no intention conversing with you.I will do what Jeff suggested.... I did not realise you could do thatEdited by - Crespo24 on 04/03/2003 09:42:39 |
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nr
SQLTeam MVY
12543 Posts |
Posted - 2003-04-03 : 11:37:52
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| wb anyway :).==========================================Cursors are useful if you don't know sql.DTS can be used in a similar way.Beer is not cold and it isn't fizzy. |
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PaulTeal
Yak Posting Veteran
67 Posts |
Posted - 2003-04-03 : 11:39:51
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quote:
With the big technology boom of the nineties, many people were hired (and still are working) without any formal computer science training. I'm curious how many SQL Teamer's have a CS degree.
My academic training is in the interpretation of ancient Buddhist Texts. Two years of graduate school and nothing to show for it. I am surprised, though! With so many SQL Team members who think very little of Certification Programs, I figured that many of you would think even less of a college IT degree. The college programs seem to be even more generalized than the certification programs.Paul Tealpaul@partytilyoupop.com |
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nr
SQLTeam MVY
12543 Posts |
Posted - 2003-04-03 : 11:41:41
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| >>If you were a doc in a hospital, most likely your boss used to be a doc and is not a chief ... he's done your job and probably knows it better than you. Not any more in the UK. Is probably an administrator and would ask you to fill in more forms.(Maths degree).==========================================Cursors are useful if you don't know sql.DTS can be used in a similar way.Beer is not cold and it isn't fizzy. |
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Sitka
Aged Yak Warrior
571 Posts |
Posted - 2003-04-03 : 11:55:22
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quote:
and that I write SQL code rather than build queries in the the graphic editor in Enterprise Manager.
where is this??Voted best SQL forum nickname...."Tutorial-D" |
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Graphic Editor for Building Views