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jhermiz
3564 Posts |
 Posted - 2004-03-23 : 14:06:04
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The fact that our company does not have dba for sql server kind of pisses me off.I guess its because we are an engineering company and not a software company. But does anyone else's organization run like this. I mean the SQL Server is basically run by the IT guys..network admins. I have full rights to it as well since I do a lot of development.But recently I opened up enterprise only to see some weird looking databases...they look like they were auto installed by Microsoft Web Portal Software...must be using our db server as the backend.I just don't like the idea that people are creating / auto-creating databases...Sorry had to rant |
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ditch
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
1466 Posts |
Posted - 2004-03-23 : 23:03:16
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| That'd piss me off too.Don't have that problem here, I work at a Large retail company we have about 3 dba's for production systems and we even have 1 Development dba.Duane. |
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Merkin
Funky Drop Bear Fearing SQL Dude!
4970 Posts |
Posted - 2004-03-23 : 23:38:31
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| Who is in charge of the DB server ? The same person who installed SharePoint ? Damian |
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nr
SQLTeam MVY
12543 Posts |
Posted - 2004-03-24 : 02:59:28
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| Lots of companies work like this until they have a problem - then they decide it's important.Usually just after they discover they don't have any usable backups.You'll also probably find someone trying to pretend they have database knowledge refusing to tell anyone what they are doing and making sure that no one with expertise gets near it or attends meetings.==========================================Cursors are useful if you don't know sql.DTS can be used in a similar way.Beer is not cold and it isn't fizzy. |
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jhermiz
3564 Posts |
Posted - 2004-03-24 : 07:42:00
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| Well I can get backups taken care of. Damian, I'm not sure who really is in charge...it's like the network admins can go in there when they want. But they don't really care for it...I mean its not like they understand what's in there. They probably don't even open up Enterprise, or Q&A, these databases might have auto generated from scripts or something.It just kinda feels strange to watch you guys talk about administration, production or development servers, data warehousing, and we have NONE of these things. Our database server is just one, there is no production / blah or what not...we develop and thats what gets used...I know probably sounds strange, but we don't know any better.Jon |
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mr_mist
Grunnio
1870 Posts |
Posted - 2004-03-24 : 07:48:55
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| I think what tends to happen is that places start off with a "free" environment and only find out later that they need to impose a certain set of rules to the environment in order for it to carry on functioning. For example, I have worked in places where all the coders had server admin rights on the SQL boxes. Luckily I helped to persuade them that this wasn't the best way forward, but, still, much management tend to be after results above everything else, security / stability or future proofing comes a far second.-------Moo. :) |
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nr
SQLTeam MVY
12543 Posts |
Posted - 2004-03-24 : 13:27:52
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| >> but we don't know any better.From your question you do - and a bit of thought will show the risks you are taking.Seehttp://www.nigelrivett.net/SQLServerReleaseControl.htm==========================================Cursors are useful if you don't know sql.DTS can be used in a similar way.Beer is not cold and it isn't fizzy. |
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Sitka
Aged Yak Warrior
571 Posts |
Posted - 2004-03-24 : 14:46:59
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quote:
It just kinda feels strange to watch you guys talk about administration, production or development servers, data warehousing, and we have NONE of these things. Our database server is just one, there is no production / blah or what not...we develop and thats what gets used...I know probably sounds strange, but we don't know any better.
Start scripting circles around thenetwork admins they will hand it over toyou. It takes a few years of yellingto convince them they are better off putting thebackups to tape instead of the MDF files, but ifyou are persistent it will pay off through attrition.It is a rich creamy color with a high fat content of 5-7 percent. Being so high in fat, it is usually processed into butter, cheese, or yogurt. An average cow will produce 110 kg. Milk in a lactation period of an average of 149 days |
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tkizer
Almighty SQL Goddess
38200 Posts |
Posted - 2004-03-24 : 14:50:19
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| I've had the same experience with admins as Sitka. They seem to think that backing up the MDF and LDF files to tape constitutes a backup. When I convince them that that isn't so, they then want to use NetBackup or ArcServer or whatever software package they have to take the backups of the database. I kindly inform them that I'll be using the native backup commands and that their software package can just copy that file to tape. I either use native backup command or SQL Litespeed, just depends on how big the databases are.Jon, if you are going to be the db admin, start setting up the various admin jobs without using the maintenance plan wizard. That's the first thing that a DBA is going to do if your company ever hires one. I'm sure you don't use wizards to create your applications, so don't use wizards to create important jobs.Minimum 3 jobs to be created:BACKUP DATABASEDBCC DBREINDEXDBCC CHECKDBTara |
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jhermiz
3564 Posts |
Posted - 2004-03-24 : 16:05:01
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| I dont think we are going to hire one...these people are just too hard to convince. That and the fact that we may be outsourced pretty soon, which is making me sort of nervous. All my hard work...for nothing...wow what a great thing to go into CS and get my bachelors and completing my masters and now I'm going to be jobless...hooray for the USA!!Jon |
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derrickleggett
Pointy Haired Yak DBA
4184 Posts |
Posted - 2004-03-24 : 16:24:02
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| Then you really only need one script:OutsourceThis.sqllolMeanOldDBAderrickleggett@hotmail.comWhen life gives you a lemon, fire the DBA. |
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tkizer
Almighty SQL Goddess
38200 Posts |
Posted - 2004-03-24 : 16:25:34
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| I got outsourced in 1999. We were all offered jobs at the outsourced company. Stayed with the outsourced company for 2 years. 2 years too long!Tara |
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Merkin
Funky Drop Bear Fearing SQL Dude!
4970 Posts |
Posted - 2004-03-24 : 17:45:38
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| How to get admins to take SQL Server backup procedures seriously :Exec master..XP_CmdShell 'NET SEND Administrators "SQL Server emergency recovery. All user databases will be deleted."'Damian |
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eyechart
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
3575 Posts |
Posted - 2004-03-24 : 17:55:26
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quote:
Originally posted by tdugganMinimum 3 jobs to be created:BACKUP DATABASEDBCC DBREINDEXDBCC CHECKDB
I don't mean to hijack this topic, but I think that Tara has brought up an excellent point. There are definitely some scripts that need to be run at a given interval (minutes, hours, days, weeks, etc.) which I would consider a best practice for SQL server database administration.Tara has listed 3 important ones, but of course there are more. I've also got a script that that checks for database blocking which I run every 4 minutes. It pages my team whenever we see a block that persists from the last run. It wasn't that difficult to put together, and it has been extremely valuable in helping us troubleshoot some performance problems.I would be interested in what the rest of you would consider to be a best practice (along these same lines) and maybe we could create a repository of these scripts. If anyone is interested, I can post the blocking script to get these started. Last week (or so) Tara posted and excellent backup script that a quick search will locate.-ec |
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tkizer
Almighty SQL Goddess
38200 Posts |
Posted - 2004-03-24 : 18:20:19
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| Another thing that should be monitored is the server's overall performance. This can easily be done with Performance Monitor. We monitor the production servers 3 times per week for 4 hours. We collect that information and analyze it to determine if there are any hardware bottlenecks or if we are simply outgrowing the hardware. SQL Profiler also should be run ocassionally.Tara |
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MichaelP
Jedi Yak
2489 Posts |
Posted - 2004-03-24 : 19:06:34
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| Hey EC, Would you mind sharing that blocking script? If not, i understand.I'd love to set that up to run and write a record into my emailqueue.Michael<Yoda>Use the Search page you must. Find the answer you will.</Yoda> |
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AjarnMark
SQL Slashing Gunting Master
3246 Posts |
Posted - 2004-03-24 : 19:24:53
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| Jon, if you want to make yourself more valuable and thus decrease the chance that you'll be outsourced, or at the least be in a better position to get a new job if you are, then you are in the perfect situation. Take the opportunity NOW to talk with your boss and say something like, "I've been doing some reading, and I think there are some important steps we should take to protect the integrity of our databases. I'll work on the scripts we need when I'm off-the-clock so it won't slow down my productivity here. I think this is really important."That will do a few things for you. First, it will let them know that you are more knowledgeable about SQL than maybe they believe. Second, it will reassure them that you're not going to try to abandon your job that they're paying you to do in order to do this other stuff that they don't yet see the value of. And third, it puts you in the position as the defacto DBA, and as people get used to that and you continue to make suggestions/improvements, you'll be in line to become the DBA if they ever decide to get one. And best of all, it shows you have initiative, which every company is looking for, and that you're thinking about what's best for the company.Good luck!--------------------------------------------------------------Find more words of wisdom at [url]http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/markc[/url] |
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MichaelP
Jedi Yak
2489 Posts |
Posted - 2004-03-24 : 19:50:12
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| Mark, That's pretty much what I've done here, and I can say that it works!As far as outsoucing is concerned, it's easy to outsource programming, but hard to outsource your entire datacenter. If you are the DBA, you'd probably stay on with the company where the servers are.Michael<Yoda>Use the Search page you must. Find the answer you will.</Yoda> |
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tkizer
Almighty SQL Goddess
38200 Posts |
Posted - 2004-03-24 : 19:52:36
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| Wasn't hard for my company. They outsourced the entire IT department. Most of us joined the outsourced company.Tara |
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Merkin
Funky Drop Bear Fearing SQL Dude!
4970 Posts |
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Amethystium
Aged Yak Warrior
701 Posts |
Posted - 2004-03-31 : 13:41:17
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| Out of interest, the article posted mentions a bug database?! I read the link but I'm wondering what kind of bugs is this talking about? Surely when scripting you either get the result of the script right or you don't. Is this referring to bugs as in, say a select part of a script doesn't return the correct number of rows?I don't think we [as in our tean] uses such a database although we do have a Lotus Notes Database used to submit issues using the actual front-end software of the system.Intersting read though...________________Make love not war! |
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no administration pisses me off