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elwoos
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
2052 Posts |
 Posted - 2005-04-18 : 18:51:49
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| I've been asked to do an export of some data to an MS Access database. I have too much on so told them I couldn't do it in the timescales they wanted. They then (to my shock as this has never happened before) offered to pay me to do it privately. Since then they've decided that they don't want an export to an MS Access file but to a plain text file (or series of files) and that someone else will import it into Access.My dilemna is - do I tell them that the scope has reduced so much that it is now a 10 minute job or do I take the money (which hasn't been agreed yet, though to a point I can name my price) and dissapoint wiffy who has already spent what she thinks I will getWhat would you do?steveA sarcasm detector, what a great idea. |
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robvolk
Most Valuable Yak
15732 Posts |
Posted - 2005-04-18 : 19:03:51
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| Take the money, get as much as you can. |
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AjarnMark
SQL Slashing Gunting Master
3246 Posts |
Posted - 2005-04-18 : 19:15:11
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| Have a talk with your wife about responsible financial management.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Emerald City Domains: Great deals on Domain Registration, Web Hosting, Custom Email, and more! |
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derrickleggett
Pointy Haired Yak DBA
4184 Posts |
Posted - 2005-04-18 : 19:28:53
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| I got a gig scheduling Crystal Reports once. I charged them $35/hr with a minimum 80 hours. It took me about 7 hours to schedule the several hundred reports they had. Apparently, nobody ever showed them how to right-click on a report and schedule it (this was an OLD version). Stupidity and laziness both have prices. If they only have to pay that once, they learned a good lesson. If they do it again, they IDIOTS!!!MeanOldDBAderrickleggett@hotmail.comWhen life gives you a lemon, fire the DBA. |
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jen
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
4110 Posts |
Posted - 2005-04-18 : 22:34:42
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| have them pay for it. just consider it as "you know a shorter way of doing it but charge them the longer way coz what's important is the task to be completed"if you keep thinking, it's a simple job and i can do it faster than you, then they'll just abuse your "kindness"--------------------keeping it simple... |
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AndrewMurphy
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
2916 Posts |
Posted - 2005-04-19 : 07:09:37
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| They are paying for your knowledge....not your effort.Take the money, but give them a goodwill discount of 5%. |
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Kristen
Test
22859 Posts |
Posted - 2005-04-19 : 08:27:23
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| Ask if you can keep their watch so you can tell them the time, next time, without having to ask to borrow their watch!Kristen |
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rockmoose
SQL Natt Alfen
3279 Posts |
Posted - 2005-04-19 : 10:07:22
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Have them post to Ask SqlTeam  Nah, do the job, and they will be HAPPY to pay You.(A reasonable amount in the higher end range makes the customers most happy,too little just makes them suspicious)rockmoose |
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Michael Valentine Jones
Yak DBA Kernel (pronounced Colonel)
7020 Posts |
Posted - 2005-04-19 : 10:38:20
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| With any job, the most important thing is that the job is done right. That is the premium they are paying you: to get it done right and not have to worry about it againLook at the posts on the forums from people that have been working on problems for days and get solutions from people here in a few minutes. Was it a three day job or a three minute job? Depends on who is doing it.As long as they are happy with the result, they will be happy to pay the money.CODO ERGO SUM |
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elwoos
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
2052 Posts |
Posted - 2005-04-20 : 03:01:49
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| I must admit that most of you have suprised me a little. Though now I think about it I did once get paid two days wages for what turned out to be half a days work (labouring job) coz I happened to be in the right place at the right time and although I'm not a labourer and didn't find it as easy as some of them I did my share.This is like taking candy from a baby though isn't it. Shouldn't knowledge be free (in all senses of the word) isn't that what this board ia about? Shouldn't I feel guilty? Kristen - if you ever want to know the time just call me (they may be buying me a gold rolex soon - just need a business case)steveA sarcasm detector, what a great idea. |
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jen
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
4110 Posts |
Posted - 2005-04-20 : 03:39:25
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you're such a nice guy steve, you must be in the wrong profession somehow  "Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering."quote:
Originally posted by elwoos
This is like taking candy from a baby though isn't it. Shouldn't knowledge be free (in all senses of the word) isn't that what this board ia about? Shouldn't I feel guilty?
--------------------keeping it simple... |
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robvolk
Most Valuable Yak
15732 Posts |
Posted - 2005-04-20 : 07:23:55
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quote:
This is like taking candy from a baby though isn't it.
Yes, but candy is bad for baby's teeth, and you should be more responsible for providing them with a good diet.quote:
Shouldn't knowledge be free (in all senses of the word) isn't that what this board ia about?
Yep, that's why we're not charging you for the advice we're giving on how much to charge someone else. quote:
Shouldn't I feel guilty?
Sure, just as long as you can't be PROVEN guilty. |
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Dirty_Howi
Starting Member
12 Posts |
Posted - 2005-04-20 : 10:37:05
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| remember this story??pc tech called to fix server, walks into server room, smacks server on the side, say's he'll send bill, bill arrives...for $5000, manager is furious, want's DETAILED bill.pc tech sends detailed bill to the effect of.1..smacking server --$5.002..knowing where to smack server --$4995.00When i'm right, no one remembers, when i'm wrong no one forgets. |
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AjarnMark
SQL Slashing Gunting Master
3246 Posts |
Posted - 2005-04-20 : 11:02:52
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| Steve, the real answer is that you have to check your conscience and do what you think is right. To me, integrity is a very important thing, and I can't justify billing someone an exhorbitant rate for menial tasks. Now, I'm not above charging a premium rate for my accumulated skill and knowledge, but I can't bring myself to really screw somebody either. Some day they may have somebody else who knows technology come along and let them know they got screwed. But even if that doesn't happen, I'll know, and I have to live with me for the rest of my life.So, if I were in your position, I would look it over, give it a good, honest evaluation of actual time required to do what they want, and that includes design, development, testing, installation and training, and then go with that.By the way, I do not see anything wrong with charging different rates for different size projects. For example, I have my standard premium rate for short term projects and then I have a slightly reduced rate that I offer for longer term contracts. It's like offering the client a discount for buying my time in bulk. We both win.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Emerald City Domains: Great deals on Domain Registration, Web Hosting, Custom Email, and more! |
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Kristen
Test
22859 Posts |
Posted - 2005-04-20 : 11:29:03
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| "standard premium rate"What a magnificent concept!Kristen |
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AjarnMark
SQL Slashing Gunting Master
3246 Posts |
Posted - 2005-04-20 : 13:37:18
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| That works especially well in Lake Wobegone where all the students are above average.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Emerald City Domains: Great deals on Domain Registration, Web Hosting, Custom Email, and more! |
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nr
SQLTeam MVY
12543 Posts |
Posted - 2005-04-20 : 19:41:31
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| Tell them how long you thonk it should take. Bear in mind that things always take longer than you expect.OK producing a text file may take about 10 mins but there are a lot of things that can make it longer. You need to include some time for assessing the requirements - especially as they seem to be fairly fluid. Also what sort of handover/training/documentation do they want.And what made you think that exporting to access would take much longer.Just be honest - the price doesn't have to correspod to how much effort it will take you. It's more to do with how much you want to do it and how much the client wants you to do it.You can always send them my way :).==========================================Cursors are useful if you don't know sql.DTS can be used in a similar way.Beer is not cold and it isn't fizzy. |
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elwoos
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
2052 Posts |
Posted - 2005-04-21 : 03:10:50
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| I must admit having read some of the comments here I spoke to my wife about it last night and she agrees with you all. (She's a Teacher!!). I must admit I am suprised but I am being swayed by these arguments.Just for information. The Access database is a reasonably well designed one that I currently know very little about. The SQL Server database is one that I know well (perhaps better than the supplier) which is why the export would be quick. This one is poorly designed - not even in First Normal Form but I have learnt to live with its limitations.The requirements are dead simple if they just want a text file (i.e. straight export from 3 tables and those that match from another - straight forward join). To export to the Access database I would need to match fields/datatypes etc. as well as normalise the SQL Server database (no mean feat believe me) which I can see would be a fair bit of time and effort.Due to other recent events here I've started to realise that I am the only person who can do either of these quickly and efficiently. So if someone else would take four times as long as me then perhaps I should charge at three times what it takes me.I can't believe I'm thinking this - I'd like to say you guys were a bad influence but I'm not sure you are.Thanks everybodysteveA sarcasm detector, what a great idea. |
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jen
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
4110 Posts |
Posted - 2005-04-21 : 03:35:35
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| before, i have the same attitude as you, thinking that I can perform a task fairly fast and efficiently, so it's no botherbut come to think of it, i realized that i'm actually devaluating my worth and the task i'm doing just because i have a faster way of doing it again, they're paying you for your skills and knowledge, not the effort and time you've spent, actually in my present job, the less time i have to solve a problem, the higher the charge (less downtime for the company)--------------------keeping it simple... |
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AjarnMark
SQL Slashing Gunting Master
3246 Posts |
Posted - 2005-04-21 : 13:42:08
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| There definitely is something to be said for being paid more for knowing a better way. Anybody remember the Microsoft vs. IBM debate about being paid for K-LOCs?And it sounds like you're coming around to seeing that there is a lot more than just the quick export to the project. It's common for us to focus on the length of time it will take for the main task and forget to account for all of the miscellaneous prep and clean-up work. I've fought with myself on that for years.---------------------------EmeraldCityDomains.com |
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jhermiz
3564 Posts |
Posted - 2005-04-21 : 16:39:14
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I tend to like AjarnMark's approach can't remember if it was him or chad who are contractors (maybe they both are). But you have to always be careful what you are charging / ripping people off...As AjarnMark stated they may one day have someone who knows as much / more than you and state the obvious, "Wow you got ripped off on that!". They sure won't ever call you again for more work in the future.Ahhhh is it 5pm yet ?
Keeping the web experience alive -- [url]http://www.web-impulse.com[/url]Imperfection living for perfection -- [url]http://jhermiz.blogspot.com/[/url] |
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A real dilemna