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t1g312
Posting Yak Master
148 Posts |
 Posted - 2005-09-06 : 07:10:45
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| Dear all,We have been developing application in VB/SQL Server for nearly a decade and would like to move to .Net now. Since a considerable amount of investment has to be made in software/training, I would like to know whether all traditional client server business applications can be migrated to ASP.Net and if we would have to compromise some of the functionalities.Thanks in advance,AdiAdi |
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t1g312
Posting Yak Master
148 Posts |
Posted - 2005-09-06 : 07:13:45
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| A couple of more questions1. Will the grid the comes with VS .Net 2003 suffice or would we have to buy Infragistics Netadvantage to implement advanced features?2. Can the actual website development be done in VS or do we need to buy Dreamweaver or some such software?Adi |
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elwoos
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
2052 Posts |
Posted - 2005-09-06 : 08:23:19
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| I am fairly new to ASP.NET so can't answer most of your questions but you CAN design the website in VS whether or not that is desirable depends on your circumstances. The beta of VS2005 may answer some of your questions as I believe that release is fairly imminent.As for the app migration you will need to bear in mind that there is a different sort of culture to web development, some things are easier, some harder thought I suspect someone more knowledgeable will be able to provide mroe information on thissteveAlright Brain, you don't like me, and I don't like you. But lets just do this, and I can get back to killing you with beer. |
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t1g312
Posting Yak Master
148 Posts |
Posted - 2005-09-06 : 08:56:24
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quote:
Originally posted by elwoos
I am fairly new to ASP.NET so can't answer most of your questions but you CAN design the website in VS whether or not that is desirable depends on your circumstances. The beta of VS2005 may answer some of your questions as I believe that release is fairly imminent.As for the app migration you will need to bear in mind that there is a different sort of culture to web development, some things are easier, some harder thought I suspect someone more knowledgeable will be able to provide mroe information on thissteveAlright Brain, you don't like me, and I don't like you. But lets just do this, and I can get back to killing you with beer.
Thanks for that steve! While I hear a lot about webcontrols such as webgrids, I can hardly find any samples/demos on the internet. Maybe they're mostly used by companies for their internal applications.Adi |
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AjarnMark
SQL Slashing Gunting Master
3246 Posts |
Posted - 2005-09-06 : 14:53:27
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| Adi, you can do quite a lot with the built-in DataGrid control. Might I suggest you dive in to Scott Mitchell's 18-part series on Examining the Data Grid. It's very well written, and easy to understand. I would suggest walking through each of the demos. You can probably do several in a day, and you'll be surprised how much can be done with it.---------------------------EmeraldCityDomains.com |
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AjarnMark
SQL Slashing Gunting Master
3246 Posts |
Posted - 2005-09-06 : 15:01:53
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| Adi, I did a lot of development in VB6 / SQL Server in the past and I believe that you can accomplish everything you've done in the past within .NET. BUT you won't necessarily want to change everything over to ASP.NET. Remember that the .NET technologies and languages (VB.NET, C#, etc.) can be used to build desktop applications as well as web (ASP.NET) applications. I look at deciding to migrate a desktop app to the web as a business decision with technical considerations, apart from deciding which technology to use once that decision has been made. There are some serious paradigm shifts that take place when you go to the web, on top of the paradigm shift from classic VB to .NET so be prepared for training and learning curves.There are some things (which I typically consider bad habits) that people have gotten away with in desktop applications that will simply not fly in that formation on the web. There is likely a good solution to your needs on the web, but it may require some serious strategizing to overcome those bad habits.And for the record, I do my development in VS.Net, both web pages (display) and code behind (modules).---------------------------EmeraldCityDomains.com |
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t1g312
Posting Yak Master
148 Posts |
Posted - 2005-09-07 : 05:31:40
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| Thanks for your time Mark!Adi |
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elwoos
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
2052 Posts |
Posted - 2005-09-08 : 03:03:14
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quote:
I do my development in VS.Net, both web pages (display)
I do the same but wjat I was getting at was that if you have access to some sort of Graphic designer or some such then it is unlikely that they will have/want VS. They are more likely to have Dreamweaver or some such.steveAlright Brain, you don't like me, and I don't like you. But lets just do this, and I can get back to killing you with beer. |
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t1g312
Posting Yak Master
148 Posts |
Posted - 2005-09-08 : 08:18:46
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quote:
Originally posted by AjarnMark
Adi, you can do quite a lot with the built-in DataGrid control. Might I suggest you dive in to Scott Mitchell's 18-part series on Examining the Data Grid. It's very well written, and easy to understand. I would suggest walking through each of the demos. You can probably do several in a day, and you'll be surprised how much can be done with it.---------------------------EmeraldCityDomains.com
Thanks for the link Mark.Since we will be making a considerable investment to move to .Net, I could always slip in a few more tools like grids etc. Has anyone actually tried Netadvantage? Is it really worth purchasing?Adi |
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t1g312
Posting Yak Master
148 Posts |
Posted - 2005-09-08 : 08:23:04
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quote:
Originally posted by AjarnMark
Adi, I did a lot of development in VB6 / SQL Server in the past and I believe that you can accomplish everything you've done in the past within .NET. BUT you won't necessarily want to change everything over to ASP.NET. Remember that the .NET technologies and languages (VB.NET, C#, etc.) can be used to build desktop applications as well as web (ASP.NET) applications. I look at deciding to migrate a desktop app to the web as a business decision with technical considerations, apart from deciding which technology to use once that decision has been made. There are some serious paradigm shifts that take place when you go to the web, on top of the paradigm shift from classic VB to .NET so be prepared for training and learning curves.There are some things (which I typically consider bad habits) that people have gotten away with in desktop applications that will simply not fly in that formation on the web. There is likely a good solution to your needs on the web, but it may require some serious strategizing to overcome those bad habits.And for the record, I do my development in VS.Net, both web pages (display) and code behind (modules).---------------------------EmeraldCityDomains.com
You're right about the bad habits. Which is why I'm a bit concerned about moving to web based software development. In a traditional client server application, you would have an MDI screen and you could open several screens including data entry screens, masters, etc. How do you go about it in web based development? Are frames still in vogue? Is there a book or site on best practices for the web or could someone suggest a good sample application?Thanks!AdiAdi |
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MichaelP
Jedi Yak
2489 Posts |
Posted - 2005-09-08 : 08:33:03
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| .Net tends to not like frames.Michael<Yoda>Use the Search page you must. Find the answer you will. Cursors, path to the Dark Side they are. Avoid them, you must. Use Order By NewID() to get a random record you will.</Yoda> |
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AjarnMark
SQL Slashing Gunting Master
3246 Posts |
Posted - 2005-09-08 : 15:27:17
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| I tend to not like frames in my web sites. For formatting purposes, I recommend using styles (CSS). Here's a good link to get started on that: HTML with Style. With styles, you can create movable panels or portals (portlets?). For example, look at how Yahoo does the layout on myYahoo accounts. Different sections can be moved around, added or removed for collections of information all on one page (e.g. weather forecast, stock quotes, address book, etc.). This requires more than your typical entry-level developer to put together, but it can be done.If you really need MDI, you'll probably want to stick with desktop and not go to web. But perhaps with some redesign, you can get it to work on the web. Probably a good time to do a little usability research and find out exactly how the users are using the MDI. Are they doing parent-child linking? You can probably handle your dynamic needs with client-side JavaScript. Are they doing multi-page data entry, like a wizard? That can be done by rolling through pages or by using hidden Panels on a page. You can also do tabbed forms. There really are a lot of things you can do, it just takes some creative thought.As for best practices... there are a lot of areas to consider, but basically you're looking at these two large categories: Best UI DESIGN practices, best CODING practices. The UI Design is about not just what looks good, but also what is easy to use. And you can learn from both the good and the bad. Some resources:Pixelcentric's Interface Hall of ShameJoel on SoftwareWeb Pages that SuckJakob Nielsen's Alertbox4 Guys from Rolla - ASP.NETASP.NETA word of caution: There are many experts, and even more "experts", if you know what I mean. Like everything else in software, web development is still more art than science. As you pursue best practices guides, continually ask yourself what the authors' biases are and what the underlying priciple is behind a statement. For example, I've linked to both Joel Spolsky and Jakob Nielsen above. Both are great sources of info, both have strong opinions, and they would probably only occasionally agree with each other. But you can glean serious principles from both of them and apply to your needs. Of course you know we'll be glad to help you here with anything SQL Server.Best of luck!---------------------------EmeraldCityDomains.com |
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AjarnMark
SQL Slashing Gunting Master
3246 Posts |
Posted - 2005-09-08 : 15:29:45
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quote:
Originally posted by elwoos
quote:
I do my development in VS.Net, both web pages (display)
I do the same but wjat I was getting at was that if you have access to some sort of Graphic designer or some such then it is unlikely that they will have/want VS. They are more likely to have Dreamweaver or some such.
Steve, good point. I spend a lot of time doing all aspects that I sometimes forget about splitting up the design from the code.---------------------------EmeraldCityDomains.com |
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DustinMichaels
Constraint Violating Yak Guru
464 Posts |
Posted - 2005-09-08 : 15:34:58
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| If your doing web developing you should go to C#. The reason is that C# is closer to Javascript than VB.NET |
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AjarnMark
SQL Slashing Gunting Master
3246 Posts |
Posted - 2005-09-08 : 15:35:05
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| Oh, one more piece of advice, Adi. Decide early which browsers you are going to specifically support. One of the greatest frustrations for web developers is that none of the browser brands or versions is both a) most commonly used and b) 100% standards compliant. So you have to decide whether you're writing for the mass public and need to support old versions of browsers with limited abilities, general public with current browser versions, or internal-use only where you can dictate what browser/version will be used.Unfortunately, just because something works in the current version of one browser does not mean it will work in the current version of another. They're all getting better, and .NET does some browser-specific on-the-fly changing for you, but not everything. Just be aware that you'll want to have a test lab setup with each browser/version you plan to support.---------------------------EmeraldCityDomains.com |
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elwoos
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
2052 Posts |
Posted - 2005-09-09 : 03:24:52
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quote:
If your doing web developing you should go to C#. The reason is that C# is closer to Javascript than VB.NET
This is quite contentious. Without wishing to regenerate the discussions that have been seen here and elsewhere, there are pro's and con's to both. Personally I have a very very basic knowledge of C and am much more comfortable with VB in its many guises, however I have recently done one of the microsoft ASP.NET courses and quickly realised that for a lot of things the syntax is almost identical between VB.NET and C#. I would have thought that an experienced VB developer may think that they would prefer VB.NET but there have been a lot of changes and so it is worth carefully considering all the options.steveAlright Brain, you don't like me, and I don't like you. But lets just do this, and I can get back to killing you with beer. |
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t1g312
Posting Yak Master
148 Posts |
Posted - 2005-09-10 : 01:50:42
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| Thanks again guys!Adi |
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PRRSQL
Starting Member
8 Posts |
Posted - 2005-10-06 : 14:40:59
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| I use the Infrgistics Data Grid. It is awesome! It handles paging and is, in my view, better than the Component One Grid. There are events in the grid that capture cell or row clicks.You can get this grid for Free if you have the MS .NET Developer's kit. You can see the FREE Grid in use on my site at www.SURFThru.com The company I work for purchased the entire .NET Suite from Infragistics. It is an awesome product.Some books I found very helpful.1.Murach's ASP.NET with VB.NET. This is the best jump start book you will find. When I first moved to .NET in 2003 I bought many, many books. This is the only one I kept.http://www.surfthru.com/Book_ISBNCompare.aspx?ISBN=18907742002. ADO.NET Core Reference - Read it from cover to cover. Awesome book and well written.http://www.surfthru.com/Book_ISBNCompare.aspx?ISBN=07356142373. VB.NET Core Reference: Do not buy the $5.00 used book on Amazon with a smilar title. It is garbage. The real book used is $29.00http://www.surfthru.com/Book_ISBNCompare.aspx?ISBN=0735613753Regards,Patrick |
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t1g312
Posting Yak Master
148 Posts |
Posted - 2005-10-15 : 02:05:34
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Patrick,Thanks for the links.Are you saying that Infragistics grid comes free with VS.Net? We are considering buying Infragistics Netadvantage but if Data grid will do the job, it's fine with me.ThanksAdiquote:
Originally posted by PRRSQL
I use the Infrgistics Data Grid. It is awesome! It handles paging and is, in my view, better than the Component One Grid. There are events in the grid that capture cell or row clicks.You can get this grid for Free if you have the MS .NET Developer's kit. You can see the FREE Grid in use on my site at www.SURFThru.com The company I work for purchased the entire .NET Suite from Infragistics. It is an awesome product.Some books I found very helpful.1.Murach's ASP.NET with VB.NET. This is the best jump start book you will find. When I first moved to .NET in 2003 I bought many, many books. This is the only one I kept.http://www.surfthru.com/Book_ISBNCompare.aspx?ISBN=18907742002. ADO.NET Core Reference - Read it from cover to cover. Awesome book and well written.http://www.surfthru.com/Book_ISBNCompare.aspx?ISBN=07356142373. VB.NET Core Reference: Do not buy the $5.00 used book on Amazon with a smilar title. It is garbage. The real book used is $29.00http://www.surfthru.com/Book_ISBNCompare.aspx?ISBN=0735613753Regards,Patrick
Adi |
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Migrating from VB to .Net